Episode 3: Eliminate the Stigma | Vince Hafeli Talks About the Role of the Provider-Protector Mindset in Mental Health

This podcast is sponsored by Dynapac.

Listen to the audio-only version of this podcast on our Suicide Prevention page, and take a moment to sign the Suicide in Construction Awareness Proclamation while you’re there. 

Sandy: Welcome to the AsphaltPro Magazine Podcast Mini Series for Mental Health Wellness and Suicide Prevention. I’m magazine editor Sandy Lender and your host for this mini series. In this three-part podcast, we’ll explore ideas for incorporating a mental health wellness component into your safety program. AsphaltPro is honored to expand the conversation around this important topic and to bring Ajax Paving’s Vince Hafeli onto the podcast for that purpose.

Sandy: Vince Hafeli has over 38 years in the highway construction industry. He’s been leading a team of nearly 500 employees as president of Ajax Paving Industries of Florida for the past four years. Although his diverse background includes positions like field quality control and inspection and project manager, at the time of this recording, he’s working toward his Doctorate of Business Administration degree to further his research and training skills related to suicide in the construction industry. As a consultant and speaker advocate, he works with individuals and organizations to create open discussions around Suicide Prevention and mental health. I encourage you to follow him on LinkedIn because Vince has new information, speaking engagements, and updates on Mental Health Wellness information posted on his page frequently.

Sandy: Let’s begin part three of this three-part podcast looking at how we talk to our colleagues who may be struggling. It’s no secret we’re in a male-dominated industry; still, 89 to 90% of the workforce is male. Let’s talk about the provider-protector mindset of the traditional construction worker and how that mindset is valuable to the concept of helping a coworker. Maybe tell us a little bit about how taking those conversations into the field and letting coworkers come forward to be a supporter and to be a provider of help has manifested itself at Ajax.

Vince: We did a toolbox talk around an employee we lost to suicide in 2015. We didn’t make the talk to honor him because there’s no honor in what he did, but we wanted to share what struggles he went through. The first crew we went to that morning wanted to talk about an alcohol intervention they had done two weeks earlier, and they were proud of it. The second crew we went to, a gentleman there, a new employee with the company, wanted to share the story of his father who took his life 10 years earlier. He walks in a suicide walk every year with a picture of his dad on his back. The next crew we went to, a gentleman wanted to show us where he had tried to take his life. By creating a culture of teamwork, these guys now support one another in the field. They ask each other, “How are you doing? Is everything going okay?” It doesn’t have to come from me or the safety director. It’s kind of the same as the buddy system you referred to in the physical sense. It’s just now putting the mental aspect in line with the physical because, again, I think the mental has an impact on the physical.

Sandy: Most companies have a buddy system in place out there in the work zone where they can look out for each other for that physical safety. But do you think we’re coming to a place yet where we can have a buddy system where you watch out for the fellow on the team who looks like he’s distracted, where you can walk up to him and say, “Hey, looks like you’re not present today. What’s up? What’s going on?” Are we there yet?

Vince: No, I don’t think we’re there yet because most companies aren’t doing anything about it. They’re not even having conversations. And I would tell you that in our company, even as much progress as we’ve made in the last 15 months, we’re probably there on some crews and not there on other crews. I think the mental health first aid training we’re doing teaches these individuals what signs to look for. So, the more of those people that we get, the better. Until we do some training on the signs to look out for, if you don’t know what to look out for, right? So, no, I don’t think we’re there yet.

Sandy: You were a guest on the Dirty and Driven podcast back in February, where you made a great distinction for the audience. You said, “Mental health does not mean mental illness.” Could you talk a little bit about that concept or how safety directors and managers can view that idea to reduce reservations about discussions and then help workers?

Vince: Well, let’s begin with the easy one. If we were going to talk about my physical health, would you immediately think that I was about ready to die? Would you immediately think that I needed surgery if I told you that I injured my shoulder two years ago and I went to see a surgeon and the surgeon said, “You don’t need surgery; you need a physical therapist”? Most people, when that happens to me, they say, “Well, good for you. You don’t have to get surgery. That’s great that you’re going to see the physical therapist.” Yet when I told people that, “Hey, one of the professors at USF told me, “I’ll help you through the dissertation, but I want you to go see a therapist to talk to.” When I told that to people, it was gasp, it was awe, it was shock. “Well, I didn’t know anything was wrong with you.” So, mental health is the same as physical health. Mental health is the umbrella over mental illness. For some people that may be struggling with mental illness, it may be a day or two where they just need someone to talk to. And again, someone to talk to may be a supervisor; it may be a wife; it may be a child; it may be whomever. And at the other end of the spectrum, there are people that need medication. They’re on the other end of the spectrum of mental illness. So, we need to remove the negative condemnation that goes with the words “mental health” because mental health needs to be viewed as a positive topic. 

Vince: We want mentally healthy employees on the job. Yet, in my interviews that I do with these executives, one of the questions I asked them is, if I say the words “mental health” to you, what comes to mind? The first thing they say is nothing. It’s a pause because they don’t know what to say. Then they say, “Well, it’s typically someone that’s going through depression or someone that’s got some anxiety or maybe they’re bipolar.” So, I let them answer it, and then when we get done and we turn the recording off, I say, “Okay, now I want to go back to what you said about mental health. When I asked you what mental health means to you, you immediately went to something negative. Yet, if I want to talk to you about someone that’s physically healthy, you might think of a professional football player or you might think of a gymnast or you might think of a marathon runner. You don’t immediately think of the man that’s in the hospital waiting to get a heart transplant. Yet when I tell you the words ‘mental health,’ you immediately go to the person that needs to be in the hospital and medicated.” So, mental illness is just a piece [of] mental health. So, we just have to educate people that mental health is a good topic. We want mentally healthy people. It’s not a topic to be run away from; it’s a topic to run to.

Sandy: Another topic that I’ve heard you mention is that of transformational change. Could you kind of give your definition of this transformational change and what you hope to see in the asphalt industry specifically when it comes to a transformational change in our culture of care?

Vince: I think if you go to the broad, big definition of transformational change, it actually talks about changing an organization. I’ve done some reflection on that this week. There are probably a lot of companies in our industry that really need to do a transformational change. But I think there’s a lot of companies in our industry that just need to tweak the transformation. I think the larger companies that have full safety programs, safety directives, etc. already have a good safety culture. The smaller entities in our asphalt industry that really don’t have a safety program per se, they probably need to look at some type of transformational change. I don’t know if it’s 50/50 or if it’s 80/90, but those companies that already have a robust safety program in place, this is just another piece you’re adding to it. It’s not that difficult. So, yeah, start by talking about it, do a toolbox talk, then empower some of your foremen to begin having more talks about it with the crew. Encourage your foremen to maybe ask once a week, “Hey, how’s everybody doing? Is everybody here with me today? Is there anything going on?” And I know you may not want to talk about it in front of the group, and that’s fine; eventually, they will. So, it’s about getting the conversation going and creating the culture. It really isn’t that difficult.

Sandy: That’s a good message right there. It’s not that difficult to take the step to say we’re going to talk about this. The toolbox tips that you mentioned, they’re available everywhere. CPWR has some. I think they’re everywhere, right?

Sandy: Now, for the doctorate that you’re working toward, you’ve been interviewing members of the asphalt industry who have implemented mental health wellness in their safety programs. Could you share a couple of examples or ideas that have come from some of these interviews? I mean, something that has stood out to you as just interesting or as groundbreaking? Something that has really stood out to you that you would like to share with the audience?

Vince: I don’t know if there’s a big silver bullet out there of what[they’re] doing. The ones that are doing a good job with it have really just changed the culture of their company to where they’re addressing it. They talk about it at their annual safety day. They have the toolbox talks that they’re doing. Some of them have implemented health days, paid health days, if you need time off. I had a gentleman two weeks ago that said, “Hey, I need some help.” One of my questions in that conversation was, “Do you need some time away?” And, “Oh, by the way, don’t worry about the pay; we’ll take care of your pay while you’re away.” Because for me to pay him to sit at home for a month and try to fix his life is less expensive than me telling him to leave and I’ll find somebody to replace him. [That’s a person] I have to hire. I have to bring them to orientation. I have to get them into our safety culture. And there are numbers all over the board up to $25,000 to hire someone. If you’ve got a good worker that has done a good job for your company, the good companies are helping them, either by giving them days off for mental health or by getting them into an employee assistance program. 

Vince: The answers I got through the early part of my research were these moments of quiet where people don’t know what to do. I’ve now redirected my research, and I begin next week interviewing 10 to 15 companies that have been recommended to me by colleagues. They said, “Here are 15 companies that are really doing it right.” I’ve got interviews set up with them to see if I can find a common theme of what those companies are doing. And then in my dissertation, which is a book, I’m hoping to have a section in there to where people could go and look and say, “Hey, here’s what these 10 great companies did, here’s what they say they would have done differently, here’s what they’re doing, and here’s what the future looks like for them.” I don’t have an answer for you today; stay tuned. It’s coming.

Sandy: It’s been a pleasure talking with Vince Hafeli today. I hope everyone listening in has picked up something they can use in their companies to expand the conversation around Mental Health Wellness and Suicide Prevention. I want to encourage you again to follow Vince on LinkedIn. You can find his company online at www.AjaxPaving.com or on Facebook at Ajax Paving Industries of Florida. Be sure to visit theasphaltpro.com/SuicidePrevention to read and sign his Suicide in Construction Awareness Proclamation. If you or a colleague needs immediate help, the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline has licensed counselors standing by at all times to speak with you. Please call or text 988. Thank you for tuning in, and thank you for your willingness to share this podcast and conversation with others.